YOURSAY ‘By what means did the people as a whole consent to that change?’
Malaysia not secular state, gov't says
Malaccan: The courts have declared the federal constitution makes Malaysia for all intents and purposes a secular nation. It is the understanding of all that Malaysia is secular in that the constitution is supreme, and not the Quran in terms of governing this nation.
Minister in the PM’s Department Jamil Khir Baharom is in charge of religion (Islam to be specific), he is not the religious minister as he seems to think he is and he cannot make pronouncements like a religious decree and decide what is constitutional.
The minister may be saying since the constitution mentions Islam, then by definition, Malaysia is not secular. He may not be entirely wrong in that. Beyond that, the administration and nature of government is wholly secular.
In my opinion, the involvement of the government in religious matters i.e. Islam, other than in the set-up of the syariah courts, are purely a matter of policy and not constitutional.
Policies can and should change with time and is not beyond challenge. Even the constitution have been amended several times.
Awakened: What the minister was saying is that "Malaysia is not a secular state". He did not say "Malaysia is an Islamic state".
By being not secular does not imply Islamic state. Therefore, Umno Muslims can sit on the board of gambling company like Genting, buying company shares like San Miguel which sell liquor, using taxed money from sinful businesses like Guiness, Carlsberg, Sports Toto, etc, and approve licences on gambling, betting and the selling of liquor.
Despite all these, we are not secular. So far only Dr Mahathir Mohamad has stated that Malaysia is an Islamic state. To him, the Islamic state in Malaysia is different from others in Middle East or Africa.
We are the more moderate type of Islamic state where liquor can be sold, gambling allowed and sin taxes can be used by Muslims, and lastly Muslims can buy shares from these companies.
Malaysia is not a typical Islamic state but with Malaysian character. Got it?
Hang Babeuf: OK, then, let us allow Jamil Khir have his way, make his claim: “Malaysia is not now a secular state,” he says.
But it was one, it was intended and created as one, when it was established at independence in 1957.
So if it is not now a secular state, or even if Jamil Khir simply says or thinks it is not, he then must explain what happened in the meantime, how it was and came about that, according to him, a secular state ceased to be so, to be secular.
What argument was made? When was it put? By what means did the people as a whole consent to that change? Tell us!
He owes it to Malaysia to explain his position, to explain this miraculous transformation. To explain how a secular butterfly suddenly became an Islamist moth. Or myth.
Malaysia ABU: The constitutional amendment on Article 121 in 1988 made the high courts "have no jurisdiction in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the syariah courts", just that.
It do not provide that all civil courts have no jurisdiction on those matter. The Court of Appeal and Federal Court have no such limitation.
Secondly, the constitution is also very clear that syariah courts only have jurisdiction on "persons professing the religion of Islam".
On minor conversion and custody right on these cases, it involved non-Muslims, thus by default, the syariah courts should have no jurisdiction over them. The court order of the syariah courts on those cases are null and void.
Basically: Jamil Khir may be right that civil courts have no jurisdiction over syariah courts, but as per the constitution this only applies to Islamic matters that are within syariah courts’ jurisdiction.
In the case of the two women, the civil courts have ruled that they were civil marriages, hence their ruling supercedes syariah courts.
In truth, the custody cases were not in syariah courts’ jurisdiction, the judges should have referred the fathers back to civil courts - that would have been the proper thing for them to do.
That is crystal clear. Jamil Khir doesn’t know his facts.
RR: We the rakyat (people) cannot understand why the Umno and PAS leaders continue to play ignorant fools by saying ‘Malaysia is an Islamic state’.
The state is governed by the federal constitution, which does not declare it Islamic and the Federal Court too has ruled Malaysia is not an Islamic state.
The state does not become an Islamic state just because the former PM Mahathir Mohamad declared so. Are we fools to follow that?
I fully agree that Muslims must follow the syariah law but this is limited to their religion and family matters. When innocent children under 18 are converted to Islam, they are not truly Muslims.
It is definitely wrong for the ustaz or iman to convert innocent children and declare them Muslims. This is crux of nagging matter now which only the civil court can decide.
Jamil Khir and company should not make a mockery of the legal system and incite the rural Malays to hate other communities. Actually these fellows should be charged for sedition to save the country from going chaos.
Louis: If Malaysia is not a secular state, then what state is the country? Indeed, the people are now in a confused state.
One moment the High Court judge stated that civil court ruling overrides that of the syariah court, and now Jamil Khir, being more expert in laws that the learned judge, said otherwise.
And if truly, Malaysia is not a secular state, it must be an Islamic state. Since Jamil Khir is an Umno minister, I believe it is an official declaration of the party.
Now that the status of the country is clear, what has MCA and Gerakan got to comment on it? Did these two parties agree to the Islamic state?
P Dev Anand Pillai: There you are folks, all those who argued that Malaysia is a secular nation with its civil courts being secular courts now hear it from the horse's mouth.
Yes, he may be only the minister in charge of Islamic affairs, but rest assured, the attorney-general will keep quiet and if the AG keeps quiet, don't expect the judges of the apex court, i.e. the Federal Court, to open their mouths.
See what we have allowed our laws to become, by continuously voting in the same coalition for over 50 years?
M’sia not secular state - what say Sabah, S’wak?
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