A chat with Professor Emeritus Dr Khoo Kay Kim.
Rentakini: What do you think of Universiti Malaya then (the time you first came to UM) and now.
Since 1964, when I first came to UM (Singapore), it was world class. In Southeast Asian studies for example, it was excellent. If you look at the publications of this part of the world, there were so many students here who wrote classics. This was what the university looked like in the 60s.
Today it is like a high school. There is this tendency to make students do things according to instructions. The fact that we have introduced ISO in the university means that we are thinking, perhaps unconsciously, that the university is a factory.
So you want to quantify products whereas the university is about ideas. We don't quantify ideas, ideas have to be applied. The people who gave birth to ideas are the scholars of the university. How do you quantify an idea but you can apply an idea.
A good idea contributes to change. You don't answer the same questions for twenty years but you always have a new answer. That's why you never see the problems. But now, students are told what to do. Everything must be written down, step by step, with the help of powerpoint and students are encouraged to memorise. Last time, we learned short hand and took down notes.
Do you think history is an important subject in any school curriculum? Why?
History is important everywhere, not just in school. History, when properly studied, explains the present. The present means nothing if you do not know what happened which had led to the present. People tell us history is not important because it is about things that had already gone by and they say the future is more important.
I agree that the future is important but if you look forward to the future, what do you see - all darkness. The only way that you can prepare for the future is to understand the past. History is not just one subject, history is present in all things - we even talk about the history of river, history of mountain, chemistry, telephone etc. History is the mother of all disciplines.
In your opinion, which is the darkest chapter in Malaysian history?
If pre-Independence, it has to be the 1930's economic depression. This affected the entire country where many people went bankrupt. Mines and estates had to close and if you happen to be in KL at that time, you would see people sleeping on five-foot ways.
Without jobs, they wandered around looking for survival. The British did not know what to do and many immigrants were expatriated. The depression also caused the various ethnic groups to become wary of each other.
For example, the Malays would be angry if they saw other Malays going to Chinese coffee shops. The thinking of this group was that the Malays should only do business with the Malays and that the Chinese must not be allowed to dominate. Here, we learn that the economic downturn can be quite dangerous for the country.
The May 13 incident is another dark chapter in our history. It was highly political but thankfully, the racial riots only affected KL. It did not spread across the nation, unlike the economic depression of the 1930s.
You are a Chinese, which dialectal group do you belong to?
Hokkien, I am a Penang Peranakan.
As a historian, you must be well aware of your roots? Tell us about them.
I am about fifth or sixth generation. I must tell you this - I am very angry with the Khoo Kongsi. A few years back, the Khoo Kongsi decided to do a history of the Khoo clan. Despite knowing that I am a professor in Malaysian history, they asked a 'Tan' fellow to write the history of the Khoo Kongsi. Was that not an insult to me, you tell me?
My people - they were originally very humble people in Penang. My great great grandfather was a blockader and my great grandfather moved into the Kinta Valley, mined tin and was very successfully. It all collapsed during the 1930's depression and since then my family had not been doing so well.
My own grandfather died young when my father was only eight years old. My father passed the Senior Cambridge and managed to become a clerk in government service all throughout his life. Luckily, he educated me until university. I am coming to 70.
Isn't it sad that many Chinese Malaysians, particularly the younger generation, have no idea of their ancestral background. What is your advice to them on this matter?
A lot depends on the elders. In my case, my father and grandmother talked a lot to me. And if the parents and grandparents don't talk to the children, they are unable to learn anything.
Often, they don't even know the names of their elders. They will call them second aunt, first uncle but they don't know their names. This is not good. The elders must take the initiative first in this case.
I understand yours is a mixed marriage? Would you like to talk about it?
Because I am Peranakan, my parents were rather broad minded, they didn't object when I told them I want to marry a Jaffna woman but her father objected like hell. Her father went to see my father in the office to tell my father to stop me but my father told him, "No, you stop your daughter". I had to wait until she was 21 because of her father's objection.
I can tell you this much of experience - it is not the difference of ethnicity, difference of religion, (maybe perhaps I have no religion that makes a bit easier), but basically I think in any marriage, the two personalities matter most. If they can adjust, then it should be no problem.
Kindly tell us what you think are the disadvantages and advantages of a mixed marriage.
You could have problems with relatives. For example, my wife's younger brother could have difficulty getting married into a Jaffna family. This is because the Jaffna family does not want to associate with people of mixed family ties.
In the case of the Chinese, there are fewer problems. The Chinese are more liberated, they look at other things. One thing - my wife is fair, not dark. I remember when my relatives saw my wife for the first time at my brother's wedding, they were actually surprised she was fair. So no problem. Perhaps if she was dark, there could be a problem.
What is your advice to parents if one of their children desire to enter into a mixed marriage?
I think I would tell them to be very sure that the two personalities match. A marriage is very risky if it is based only on romantic ideas. Romantic ideas won't last.
Hey Prof, would you like to meet Marilyn Monroe?
I was never fascinated by her.
What would you say to her if you could meet her?
I really don't know.
Did you watch Marilyn Monroe movies?
I remember I saw the one where her skirt was blown by the wind - that made her very famous.
Do you think she really had affairs with the Kennedy brothers? Was that possible?
I think that was possible. After all, this is the United States.
What is the one word you would use to describe President Bill Clinton's liaison with White House intern Monica Lewinsky?
Surprising. When you move that high, you are taking terrible risks.
Why do you think Hillary Clinton is still with her husband today despite his roving eyes and wandering hands?
I think in the West, they can come to terms with each other. We don't know how really close they are, but she will not want to destroy his career for her own sake too. She too has a career and so long as they stay together publicly, it looks okay. Privately, I don't know how close they are.
Name three Hollywood actresses (dead or alive), in order of preference, whom you think had the greatest impact or influence on Americans and the rest of the world?
Janet MacDonna, Doris Day and Julia Roberts.
And who would be your favourite actor of all time?
Errol Flynn.
Do you still go to the movies or do you prefer to watch them in the comfort of your home?
Don't go to the theaters anymore.
Do you still cry at the movies?
Sure, I cry in certain movies... certain movies.
Do you know how to use firearms?
No.
If you do , is there someone you would want to shoot (in this country)?
Not really, I am not a violent person although I love to see violent movies.
What car do you drive now?
Perdana - it's Suhakam's car.
What is your favourite car?
I like Volvo - very tough car.
What is your one most important wish for Malaysia, your nation?
I wish it could be like the days when we were playing football. I played a lot of football and we never counted how many Malays, Chinese and Indians were in the team. When we want to pick a player for a particular position, we chose the best.
That was the way it was and this was before 1957. Even in the 60s, we were like that. Now, people started to count and what do you see in our sports today. I wish the good things of the past will remain in a modern Malaysia.
Feel free to make your concluding remarks.
I suppose I am influenced somewhat by what is going on. These days, we talk so much about national unity, yet people still don 't understand the word 'nation'. Actually, all citizens of the various states belong to this Malaysian nation, but we are not yet a cohesive nation.
We are still so suspicious of each other, ignorant even. We say 'Malaysia, Truly Asia', but Malaysians don't understand Asians. They don't when they should because you find all kinds of Asians in this country. Bangsa Malaysia should be translated as Malaysian nation, not Malaysian race.
WONG YEEN FERN is a member of the Malaysiakini team. Suggestions and feedback can reach Rentakini at [email protected].
