Q&A: No Muthu, no Samy Vellu

In a recent exclusive interview with Malaysiakini, M Muthupalaniappan claims that his rival S Samy Vellu owes his position in the party and cabinet to him.

The 68-year-old lawyer is also confident of ousting the president of more than three decades in next year's party polls.

He also feels that current MIC vice-president S Sothinathan, who is touted as being the preferred choice for the number two slot, is not of presidential material.

Below are excerpts from the two-hour interview at his legal firm in Seremban.

Are you confident about your chances?

You take it from me. I am getting the required nominations, and I am winning. It is written on the wall. I have already got 540 people (to nominate). When I go there, they say 'Datuk, you don't worry, we want to nominate you'... It is a good thing that I announced (my intention to contest) much earlier.

It seems many people did not want to pay the quota for this year, they did not want to carry on with the branches. They wanted to give up on MIC and join some other party. Once, I made the announcement, then they all decided to pay the money.

So as far as you are concerned, victory is in the bag.

Yes.

Why did you say (former MIC deputy president S ) Subramaniam will not contest.

I have spoken to him... he was blocking everybody, neither did he stand and others also cannot go. He has been there for too long, longest serving deputy president. I had a discussion with him... three to four months back.

And he told me very frankly, 'You know Muthu, I don't want to stand against Samy Vellu because I had a bad experience before'. He said even when he was a deputy minister, he couldn't do anything, now he is nobody, not in any position. He said he got no political power and no money power.

I told him he was wrong, I don't know whether he has no money power or not but as far as political power is concerned, he still has a good following throughout the country. (I told him) you better stand. I was thinking he would stand for president and others could go for deputy.

(Shifting his focus back to Samy Vellu)

...we are of the same star (horoscope) ...what is surprising ... I used to tell him also, 'no Muthu, no Samy Vellu'. I am the only one during (former MIC president, the late S) Manikavasagam's time who openly supported him.

I brought Penang to support him, I brought the Malacca people to support him and the Johor people to support him... he can never think of Negeri Sembilan but I managed... I am the one who made them support Samy Vellu. At that time Manikavasagam was fully supporting Subra and (the late N) Pathmanaban.

Speculation is rife that current vice-president S Sothinathan has been picked by the president as his successor. What is your view on this?

If you see my manifesto, I have stated that the (manner in which the) selection of (election) candidates for Barisan Nasional must change. This is also one of the reasons for the defeat of Barisan Nasional (in the March 8 polls). Coming back to Teluk Kemang (where incumbent Sothinathan was defeated)... Umno did not want him (Sothinathan)... most of the MIC branches did not like him... the report was clear, Sothi cannot win, field another candidate. The entire population wanted Datuk Muthu to stand there.

If I had stood there, we would not have lost Teluk Kemang, hundreds of letters were sent to Samy Vellu... to the prime minister... I don't know whether they read the letters ... when you field a candidate, you must field a candidate who commands the respect of the constituents and also the branch leaders and also the Barisan leaders... you don't consult the division leaders and you just put your man there, what happens?... Man proposes, God disposes.

Do you see Sothinathan as being a chip of the old block or someone capable of bringing change?

No... I know him very well. (Politically), I call him a boy, that's all... that is a position which requires calibre, patience... the last elections have shown that he is not the right person, he may not suit the presidential position. Of course Samy Vellu wants a person who can...

On the manner in which party elections are carried out.

For the president's position, at the moment, all the division leaders will be returning officers of the (respective) divisions and state leaders will be the returning officers of the (respective) states.

I say all these people are appointed by the president so they are all interested parties. So what I say is, the MIC constitution says, the elections is by way of secret ballots. By balloting division by division, I don't think there is any secrecy. Every division has got a few branches... they come and vote there... so the victimisation will take place. I say that balloting and counting should take place at the state level.

What about money politics?

The Election Commission must come up with guidelines... money politics is there in MIC... before the elections, candidates should stop giving nine-course dinners at expensive Chinese restaurants... MIC itself was doing it, the state leaders held fantastic dinners in fantastic restaurants. Is this not money politics? All this should be stopped.

If you become president...

Once I become president, I will change a lot of things for the better, real democracy will prevail and there will be transparency.

Will heads roll?

(Laughs) Now, there is nothing to roll...

Will MIC continue to remain relevant in this changing political landscape which is moving towards multi-racial parties?

In a multiracial party, the benefits and the power base will favour the majority, ultimately the Indians will be slowly wiped out on the argument that this is a democratic party and you are too few in number...we will become a ladder for others.

But even in Barisan Nasional, MIC appears to be a minority.

The last elections showed a change in the way the Indians think...

Yes, they have changed but things in MIC and Barisan remain the same.

Barisan leaders are recognising the fact that Indians should be given a fair share.

But when you have an Umno MP like Tajuddin Abdul Rahman calling Indian politicians 'keling', does that really display a shift in mindset?

He was wrong... This sort of things, Barisan must take action against those who are offending the others.

On Tamil schools.

This is a very sensitive issue, I would like to know whether they want to protect the Tamil schools, or protect the Tamil language. To my mind, Tamil schools are to stay, at the same time, all the sekolah menengah (secondary schools) should make Tamil and Chinese as compulsory second languages, meaning that if they (the students) do not get through, they would fail the whole exam.

Then they will be forced to learn Tamil... We then leave it to the people, whether they want to (send their children) to Tamil schools or sekolah menengah, where they also learn Tamil.

So you would prefer that eventually Tamil schools disappear from the scene?

That's the feeling, but the Tamil language must be there.

Why do you want Tamil schools to be closed down?

I am not saying Tamil schools must be closed down.

Disappear?

No. Tamil schools are to stay, but at the same time we must protect the Tamil language as a pilot project to make it a compulsory second language.

So while the language is protected, the Tamil schools will disappear

Not necessarily. I will have a choice whether to send (my kids) to a Tamil school or sekolah menengah.

Isn't that what (Umno Youth leader) Mukhriz (Mahathir) is saying?

He says close all the Tamil schools straightway...

MIC has said that it will not let this happen, will this be your stand as well?

I have said, Tamil schools are here to stay, and at the same time, all sekolah menengah must make Tamil a compulsory second language. I leave it at that.

What about the allocation for Tamil schools, there seems to be some discrimination. What would you do about this?

All should be treated equally.

Yes, but what would you do since MIC has not been able to do anything

It is the responsibility of the government...

One minister had said in the past that mother tongue education is the responsibility of the community.

He is wrong. The government is by the people and for the people. He must be reminded of that. That is the meaning of a government.

But they have not been doing this...

Then, they must do it.

Will you do it?

I will do it. Nothing to worry about.

So you will not bow down to pressure?

I will strive for the rightful share for the Indian community.

Can we actually absolve Umno from any responsibility for the problems faced by the Indian community, in terms of their hardline racial approach which has alienated the other races.

(Lengthy pause) Umno... has to fight for its members that it represents, the Malay community. At the same time, this is a multiracial country, in order to progress, the other races must also be looked after. If the other races are not peaceful, then the Malays also cannot enjoy the cake.

So in the same manner, if the Malays are not happy, we cannot enjoy the cake either. Again I say, it is the weakness of the leaders of the component parties. Had they been outspoken (then) as they are speaking now, things would have been different. Why are they only talking about it now? They took things for granted.

What are your opinions about Hindraf (Hindu Rights Action Force) and the Nov 25 gathering?

...that day the people had shown their dissatisfaction with the government and the component party leaders. They (the community) have been keeping it (the grouses) in their hearts for a very long time. That day, the volcano erupted. The people felt that they did not get anything, they felt left out. So once they felt left out... they had to gather.

So you agree that Hindraf's stand was justified?

As far as I am concerned, they (the five Hindraf leaders held under the Internal Security Act) should be released. They are not enemies of the country, they are not a threat to the peace of the country. What they are saying is that certain rights which are lawfully due to the people were not fulfilled.

If you become president, do you believe you can lead MIC to regain lost ground in the next elections?

I can and I'll tell you why. I am the right person. I was with Samy Vellu, I was with him for 20 years and all his friends are my friends. Most of his appointments were done through my recommendations also. Thereafter we felt apart on some issues... then Subra, I was the one who told Samy Vellu that he (Subramaniam) should not be expelled either... Samy Vellu's faction are my friends, Subra's faction are also my friends.

I think I can unite them. I am also a good friend of all the IPF and Hindraf people. They all know that I am very straightforward. With all these things and my experience in the government, I will be able to unite all the Indians. Once we are united, we will have the bargaining power and our demands will be met.

On the much talked about 'Ketuanan Melayu' (Malay supremacy).

To me, everyone is equal before the law. Everyone is a human being, they should not be too sentimental about this. We agreed to the Malay leadership, it may be relevant in Barisan Nasional but not in a multiracial party.

Since you announced your candidacy, has there been any threats...

He (Samy Vellu) won't go to that extent against me. Because when he sleeps peacefully, he will think that it is because of Muthu he enjoyed 20 years of leadership and ministership.

I wrote him a letter (before and after the elections) telling him that I want to see him leave with dignity. I thought he would change...

Some people say that MIC is a volatile party and only a person like Samy Vellu can rule it with an iron fist.

(Citing a Tamil saying) You can do this with love as well.

VIDEO l 10 min

Part 1: Q&A: I'm not seeking revenge