Q&A: Datukship - to accept or not to accept?

Lim Guan Eng talks about his party's dilemma in accepting datukships in this final of the third-part exclusive interview with Malaysiakini .

Malaysiakini: (Gerakan adviser) Dr Lim Keng Yaik said if Gerakan has to make a comeback, it would not be for the next 10 years or beyond.

Lim: No, no, I wouldn’t want to be distracted. Look at Terengganu, it always said it won’t be for 10 years but yet within a term, there is already change. I don’t want to underestimate the opposition, what we need to do is to knuckle down, to get down to the basic task of running the government. That is hard work, (but) do it with integrity and most importantly with the people’s interest at heart.

You think they are just playing the role of an underdog?

Definitely, appearing to throw in the towel and still hiding their weapons.

That strategy is what the DAP was pretty good at too when you were in the opposition?

That’s why we can smell it from a distance (grins) .

On the national front, there are talks that the BN government may collapse anytime soon and PKR de facto leader Anwar Ibrahim is trying to woo over BN backbenchers. Do you foresee this happening in six or seven month's time?

Let time prove whether it is or it is not so. Let events unfold on its natural course. What we would want to stress on is I think Malaysians generally, Penangites in particular, we should always try to aspire for better things. We may not achieve this benchmark but at least if we make the effort, people will give us that credit.

If you want to have a new political paradigm, you must try to broaden the boundary, like what I am trying to do - of course, with a lot of criticisms both internally and externally but that is something that we must pursue. That is, regardless of political affiliation, we try to get people who are sincere, (with) talents and willing to serve the Penang state government, the non-partisan and bi-partisan approach, so people can be more united, inclusive and benefit at the end.

Your chief-of-staff (Jeff Ooi) said DAP cannot fail in Penang.

Failure is not an option. If we fail, nationally we may be punished - electorally speaking. That’s why I am so focused on Penang. My success in attracting people from Umno and Gerakan has raised their heckles and they are out to get me. But what have I done? All I am offering is not punishing them, not practising the politics of revenge and vindictiveness but opening up my arms to welcome them and yet that is rejected as a threat, the offer is spurned and they are even more intense and vicious in cutting me down.

But as I said, I will carry on because I see the hope among Penangites. Sometimes I am amazed at the response I get from the public, the younger they are, the more expressive they are. They want this new government to succeed because it represents their hopes.

Have you ever seen seven-year-old, nine-year-old girls writing letters to a politician to express their hopes? It’s quite amazing. They told me ‘can you please tell my teacher don’t give me so much homework’? They said ‘I support the (DAP’s party organ) Rocket so much, I heard from my parents that you went to prison to defend this girl, you sacrifice so much, I admire you and we hope you can succeed and so happy that the good people finally won’.

As a politician, you know that the people can also punish you.

Yes, they can punish me if I do not perform, that’s why I said that failure is not an option. I am willing to be punished if I do not perform, but if I am punished through underhand, dirty and manipulative tactics, of course I’ll reject it. But what I want to say is let’s put that politicking behind us, it’s over. Let us focus on governing and in that process, I am willing to consider talented people from all sectors, even across the political divide.

But Gerakan is saying (former Gerakan deputy sec-gen) Lee Kah Choon is not really qualified for his job (as InvestPenang chairperson and Penang Investment Board director)?

If you want to talk about being qualified, do you think (Gerakan’s former chief minister) Dr Koh Tsu Koon was qualified when he first became chief minister? Would I be able to qualify as chief minister? Who is ever experienced in administering a government? Is (Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad) Badawi completely qualified? He acquires it through experience.

If you are qualified to serve, you like that job you are doing for the common good but you are deprived of that opportunity because of political machination, I think that is unfortunate. Politics is to serve public good, it should be a noble calling. It’s not to serve private sectarian interests, which is what is happening. I am trying to break that mould, I know by breaking the mould, I may be broken, but at least let me try.

There are so many things on your plate. How do you juggle all the tasks? How often do you go back to Malacca?

I don’t go back. I only passed through once during Ching Ming, the All Souls Day, but I have not gone back since then (the elections).

What about meeting your wife (Betty Chew, Malacca’s Kota Laksamana state assemblyperson)?

Of course, she comes up to Penang or (we meet up) here in KL. My children go to Penang, Penang is now my home.

How often do they go to Penang?

They are schooling (in Malacca), so maybe once a fortnight or once a month because my daughter (Rachel) is in Form Five so she is focusing on her studies, but they will be moving up. The little one (youngest son Ethan) is 16 months, he is my world ... They will be moving up, I can’t do without my family.

Is there any time set (for the relocation)?

Of course, as soon as possible. We have to look at scheduling conflict. To be fair, I have been busy for the past one month, I go back after midnight and sleep around 2am and wake up around 6am, so it has been endless - to deal with one issue after another, need to do some firefighting occasionally, planning for the big picture, making sure investments roll in and I am getting the job done.

Still no plans to move into the official residence?

I am not. They told me it will cost RM300,000 to do repairs so I said ‘no’ - just do the minimal repairs to fix the leaks on the roof. If I move in I will spend that amount of money and after that probably for maintenance, it will be quite substantial.

So what is going to happen to the residence?

It will be used for public functions because I have indicated - although not directed - in the exco meeting that we will not hold functions in hotels unless absolutely necessary. What we will do is to hold it at government premises and food will be catered. At least we give some opportunity to the small-time food caterers.

How many people can the official residence accommodate?

1,000 people no problem, (it’s) fairly large.

The police are still complaining that you are staying at your parent’s house?

Security-wise, I am not exactly compliant (grins) .

Is the state government saving money because you are staying at your own place?

I get an allowance if I don’t stay at the official residence, but staying at the official residence will cost the public much, much more than paying me this allowance.

What is your stand on party leaders receiving honorary titles like Datukship?

I have my personal view on this and I find it rather uncomfortable (to accept it). But I also find there are certain ceremonial steps and courtesies (which should be) accorded to the Malay rulers. To refuse would be seen as tantamount to ' lese majeste' (offending the dignity of His Majesty).

But your father (has refused in the past too)...

Yes, but Kit Siang is not an exco member. When you are a senior exco member the concern is that you will be seen as 'lese masjeste' especially when it’s given by the sultans.

Has there been any discussion within the party on this matter?

We felt, of course, very uncomfortable with it but because it was given by the royalty, we don’t want to refuse. To refuse would be like a rebuke to a royalty. We express our concern and discomfiture that if possible, it should not be accepted. At the same time, we give them (party leaders) the leeway to decide.

What about you personally? What if an honorary title is offered to you?

I am the one approving it (as Penang chief minister), I won’t approve one Datukship for myself, no way, no. I won’t be comfortable accepting it. If it (the honorary title) is proposed by menteri besar ... I can tell him no, but if it is proposed by the sultan, it is a different picture. But as I said, there is no reason for the sultan (in other states) to offer to me as much as I respect the sultans. I prefer to be known just as an ‘encik’.

An 'encik' who lives in his own house?

Squatting in a room at the moment (smiles) . I have to find a place somewhere eventually. My mother is thinking of sending me an eviction notice. She is just getting very agitated with all the commotion and everything. At that age, you want some peace and quiet. I really feel very bad that I’m imposing this on her.

Eventually you will move out and find your own place?

Eventually I will be chased out from the house. (She said) do you know you are grown up and cannot live with your parents anymore? [Laughs]

Especially when you’re a chief minister.

[Laughs] You really rub it in.

Your mother must be proud of you.

In a way, because it (the electoral victory) was quite unexpected. It’s a rare honour and privilege that you can serve as the Penang chief minister and coming at this juncture, where we believe we can bring substantive changes, more importantly in running a CAT-government, that is actually of the people, by the people, for the people. For the first time in 30 years, it represents the people and nobody is subject to the whims and fancies of certain individuals or party.

There is one person who has somehow missed out on all this - your father, Kit Siang.

Definitely, probably he should have contested in a state seat and play that role ... But as I said, did we expect to win the state power? Not only in Penang but also in Perak, Selangor? Did you think that was within the realm of possibility?

But when the wind came and (with) our electoral strategy to go low key, the miracle happened. It opened fresh hopes and impetus to democratic reforms and most important of all, it gives the people the confidence that they can be the master of their own faith and decide their own destiny. It gives people back the ownership of their country.

Part 1

CM: Penang state's finances 'uncertain'

Q&A: 'There's been an attempt to punish Penang'

Part 2

Lim: I overruled dad on Perak boycott

Q&A: Standing up to the 'bully boys in Umno