For the third time in history, the orthodox Islamic PAS is trying to form an alliance with the secular left-leaning DAP, this time through the Pakatan Rakyat coalition.

However, contentious issues remain rife - chief among these is PAS' continuing attempts to introduce Islamic polices and laws, to consistently vehement objections from DAP.

NONE The noises have been somewhat muted since Pakatan's unprecedented success in the last general felection, in which the coalition initially wrested five states from Barisan Nasional and had to work out a power-sharing formula.

However, this does not mean that PAS had compromised its religious ideals, said its spiritual leader and Kelantan Menteri Besar Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat, 78.

It is the religious duty of every Muslim to ensure that the laws of God, or Syariah law, are implemented on earth.

Given that this does not go down well with political leaders in a multi-racial society, Nik Aziz has offered to explain the PAS stand to DAP.

Excerpts follow from an interview at his office in Kota Bharu last week - the content has been edited for language and brevity.

Malaysiakini: At a recent party seminar, an academic delivered a paper claiming there is evidence of young people becoming disenchanted with PAS. Your thoughts?

Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat: It doesn't matter whether they are young or old. They are not exposed to Islam. They are exposed to democracy, socialism, nationalism and communism but not to Islam... They are influenced by the western stereotype of Islam - that it is about terrorism, that it does not being development and is backward. They have no alternative (to this kind of thinking).

But exposure is increasing. We need to create more awareness for youths through seminars and camps. (We need to expose them to Islam because) the world was not made by a person. It was made by God.

During the Bagan Pinang by-election, it appeared that non-Muslims did not back PAS. Why was that?

It was not just a by-election. There were other factors. Blood was spilled. Malaysians must understand that when people get hurt, it is not a by-election. There was assault (on PAS workers) and threats. Umno often threatens people. They threaten (people with) the Internal Security Act and withdrawal of subsidies.

Within Pakatan Rakyat, there is frequent objection to issues like hudud law or the Islamic state. How far is PAS willing to compromise? For example, DAP usually has a different opinion on these issues.

NONE No man can have it easy all the time. Some times we fall ill. Even doctors fall ill. God has created the world this way - there are angels and demons, good and bad, heaven and earth. As Muslims, we live by the teachings of the Prophet. When someone is lazy, we preach about diligence. They then become hard-working. Cowards are told tales of bravery. They become brave. The wayward are taught about the pious (and) become religious.

There is no need (to quarrel). Say what you want, but listen to our reply. Don't make accusations and (then) when I reply, you don't listen. Tak boleh ! (This won't do). Islam means you should ask questions. If you don't understand (our policies), ask.

So you mean that PAS cannot compromise on its position on hudud law and the Islamic state?

How can we compromise? This is our ibadat (religious obligation). If we reject the meaning of Islam, we are rejecting our ibadat . God created man to follow ibadat , which is not restricted to just praying.

So how will PAS go about this? Some younger people in DAP can accept PAS, but veterans like national chairperson Karpal Singh, are more adamant about the party's secular position.

Tidak apa (It is no big deal). Karpal Singh is someone very senior. Sometimes, when people kacau (agitate) us, we have to look at them first. Sometimes, we look at them at say, ‘Let him be. He is old. Let's respect him'.

People who speak like Karpal Singh are getting fewer. He is a watak lama (old player).

So Tok Guru, you are willing to talk...

Yes. We can discuss. I like it very much when people ask me questions. If I can answer, I will. If the topic is beyond me, I will ask the person to ask someone else.

There is a suggestion by PKR politician Zaid Ibrahim that you should chair the Pakatan Rakyat coalition as spiritual leader, when it is registered . Have you considered this?

I am currently the spiritual leader elected by the PAS central committee. What is wrong with being the spiritual leader of Pakatan? If you want to listen to me, thank you. If not, sorry. If they listen and reject, I'll ask them why. This is Islam.

So you are willing to take on this added burden?

It is not a burden. It will increase my following. I would be happier leading open-minded Chinese than narrow-minded Malays. (smiles)

How is your health?

NONE Alhamdulillah . It is all right. If I stand for too long, I get tired. Doctors have told me not to (go on the ground) if I am tired. I'm old, and the ‘battery' in my heart is weakening.

Other than taking medicine, I pray (for good health). Even the Chinese are praying for me. When they see me, they tell me Jangan mati lagi, (don't die yet), Tok Guru . (laughs)

Even the Chinese are forbidding me from dying. They are more willing to listen to me than to the people from Umno.

Are you going to take a break from politics?

I cannot take a rest from politics. I can only take a break from the party. The party and politics are different. In politics, no one can be excluded. But I can take a rest from the party.

There is talk about a succession plan being put into place in PAS. Why has this come up?

Those who want (me to step down) are from Umno, not from PAS. This has always been the case.

Recently, Mohd Nik Amar Abdullah (state exco member) said it would be appropriate for you to name a successor...

You should ask him about that... ( chuckles ).

So, for now, the issue of picking a successor does not arise...?

NONE It does not. PAS has been supporting Tok Guru . Look at what happened last Friday (when) there was a spontaneous gathering . It was raining , but they came with umbrellas.

In 2004, you said that a succession plan was in place - Nik Amar and Husam Musa were told not to defend their parliamentary seats, but to contest at state level. What is the status of the succession plan?

I have three deputies. There is the Dewan Harian (management committee) and the state leadership. These are all layers... I don't need a succession plan. When I'm too old, others will replace me. Recently, when I wanted to go to Mecca, I wrote to the (Kelantan) sultan to inform him that I have delegated my duties to my deputies. This is normal. Since I couldn't go to Mecca, I withdrew the letter. This is normal.

So this means that, in Kelantan, there is no need for a succession plan as everything is based on the hierarchy?

It is ‘automatic' according to party methodology. It is a form of preparation. We must have an umbrella ready before it rains. This is practised all over the world. Even group of thieves have their ‘layers' (hierarchy).

In this case, does it mean that the ‘first layer' will be Ahmad Yakob?

Ahmad is the first layer. Whether or not he is accepted by the people, that is up to God. But he is deputy menteri besar. A lot of my duties have been delegated to him.

Much of the talk about succession has stemmed from an article written by your son Nik Abduh. He said that anyone who stops you from stepping down is stupid. The article came out of the blue...

You should ask him (to explain). I don't teach him politics. Politics cannot be taught. It is an experience. No one taught me. I read books and (articles on) the Internet and listen to advice. That is politics. It cannot be taught.

How long more do you intend to serve as menteri besar?

NONE How would I know? How old am I? Will my body take it? As long as PAS accepts me, I will remain. If PAS ask me to leave this afternoon, I will stop.

If Umno tells me to step down, I'd reply: ‘If not for you, I would have stepped down a long time ago...'. I feel proud if Umno hates me. It proves that I have kacau (shaken) them (up).

There is a claim that, in Kelantan, only Tok Guru can hold the PAS government together and that if you take a break from the party, your successor will be attacked easily.

When I am too old, the task of preaching Islam will be taken over by others... When I am old, it is no longer my obligation, but that of others. It is not like a dynasty. The person will be accepted if he is Islamic.

To fight Umno, we can't use our fists. It has to be contest of minds. My body is weak, but Alhamdulilah , I am still sane.

Do you think that Umno is trying to provoke the three deputy state commissioners to fight one another?

If Umno doesn't provoke, what else can they do? They talk about (economic) development. We have developed Kelatan. But none of their state assemblypersons talk about this in the state assembly...

Anyone can bring about economic development - whoever is in power will bring development, whether you are communist, socialist... In the five states that we (initially controlled), we brought development, not Umno. Umno has run out of ideas. If it loses the 13th general election, what kind of development can it bring?

This is why, in Kota Seputeh (Kedah), Umno is trying to avoid a by-election although the incumbent (is from Barisan Nasional). They have taken the issue to court because they are kecut (cowards).

People have begun to hate them, such as in Perak. (What happened there) is not democracy because they took the state government and speaker's seat by force. I am embarrassed by this as a Malaysian. Umno took the state by hiding (three defectors from Pakatan) for three or four days and suddenly they become (BN-friendly Independents). What kind of democracy is this?

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